Comments on: Nickel-Lithium: The Next Battery Break Through? http://blog.rv.net/2009/10/nickel-lithium-the-next-battery-break-through/ RV Campground & Camping Information - RV, Motorhome, Camper, Travel Trailer & 5th Wheel Owners Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:54:04 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: kirk http://blog.rv.net/2009/10/nickel-lithium-the-next-battery-break-through/comment-page-1/#comment-87425 kirk Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:24:27 +0000 http://blog.rv.net/?p=12465#comment-87425 a 50kwh (50,000 watthours) will drive a 3000. lb vehicle approx 300 miles according to the info I've researched...... or approx 200 wh per mile (electricity cost approx.. .02 cents per mile at .10 cents per kwh my minivan costs approx .15 cents per mile for gasoline.. I would love to have an electric rv if the cost for an electric was competitive with an internal combustion rv if it could be recharged quickly if it could be recharged thousands of times...... I'm an optimist and based on all the battery research going on I'll bet within 3-5 years I'll own one a 50kwh (50,000 watthours) will drive a 3000. lb vehicle approx 300 miles according to the info I’ve researched……
or approx 200 wh per mile (electricity cost approx.. .02 cents per mile at .10 cents per kwh
my minivan costs approx .15 cents per mile for gasoline..
I would love to have an electric rv if the cost for an electric was competitive with an internal combustion rv if it could be recharged quickly if it could be recharged thousands of times……
I’m an optimist and based on all the battery research going on I’ll bet within 3-5 years I’ll own one

]]> By: kirk http://blog.rv.net/2009/10/nickel-lithium-the-next-battery-break-through/comment-page-1/#comment-87424 kirk Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:35:24 +0000 http://blog.rv.net/?p=12465#comment-87424 Battery breakthroughs are announced frequently these days (much research money is now in battery technology.) The following companies may be producing commercial batteries/supercapacitors next year EESTOR years late but wow if they actually do produce their supercapacitor... ERRA Yess Battery Nickel Hydrogen as used in satellites but new technology allows light weight ECOLOCAP CNT Battery CarbonNanoTube battery tweaked lead acid battery All claim to be on the verge of production and have 10 times the storage capacity of lead acid quick 15 minute recharges and thousands of recharges and cost competitive with lead acid batteries...... If we get real lucky one of the above will be successful next year and be able to ramp up production quickly.... Battery breakthroughs are announced frequently these days (much research money is now in battery technology.)
The following companies may be producing commercial batteries/supercapacitors next year
EESTOR years late but wow if they actually do produce their supercapacitor…
ERRA Yess Battery Nickel Hydrogen as used in satellites but new technology allows light weight

ECOLOCAP CNT Battery CarbonNanoTube battery tweaked lead acid battery

All claim to be on the verge of production and have 10 times the storage capacity of lead acid quick 15 minute recharges and thousands of recharges and cost competitive with lead acid batteries……
If we get real lucky one of the above will be successful next year and be able to ramp up production quickly….

]]> By: GMAs http://blog.rv.net/2009/10/nickel-lithium-the-next-battery-break-through/comment-page-1/#comment-85810 GMAs Thu, 15 Oct 2009 02:36:20 +0000 http://blog.rv.net/?p=12465#comment-85810 Darth... don't you just love it... no motorhomes or trailers... oh but wait a min... the house across the street is a duplex and has cars at night lined up and down the block. Oh gee its full of illeagle mexicans who are renting the place. I count 29 bodies all going in . Why they have even turned the garage on both sides into quad plexes for the wonderful people. And yet the little old lady things its great that they have a place to live while pointing to the neighbors motorhome saying that they should ban those. When I mentioned about all them people living in one house and not paying their fair share to the city for the water, trash and sewer her comment was very defensive toward the illegals but still deverted back to the MH that makes the neighborhood look like trash???? sometimes you know it must have been sick... Yep california passed a law that the power companies have to PAY you for the power you generate if you have solar... but, here is the clinker... The PUC (run by and for the utilites) will set the rate.. want to bet its 50% less than what you pay for.. and the homeowner will get gigged because they have to pay the 50% for the power... so rate increase on the utility bill for solar power addition charge. Hey its all about the money.. don't ever forget it... they can make static numbers lie. Effecency is the key. And we aint their yet folks.. The generation of nuc power is the stepping stone to better effecency of energy useage in this country.. and then yes electric cars charged at night might be a good answer. But, you stll can't get around the battery charge /recharge issue of 50% loss each time.. Remember it takes 150% to charge the batts up.. no matter which one you are using... and that my friend is not effecent use of energy. As to 77% of its energy useage right now... did yo know that working at night.. even with lights on.. takes less energy than during the day according the national study by MIT. Indeed at night you don't need AC (largest pull of power) and some of the other things that you would need during the day. So maybe effecency can be better achieved by shifting work times??? Oh bob can you illuminate us on the 300 watts per 30 miles... still waiting !!!! Darth… don’t you just love it… no motorhomes or trailers… oh but wait a min… the house across the street is a duplex and has cars at night lined up and down the block. Oh gee its full of illeagle mexicans who are renting the place. I count 29 bodies all going in . Why they have even turned the garage on both sides into quad plexes for the wonderful people. And yet the little old lady things its great that they have a place to live while pointing to the neighbors motorhome saying that they should ban those. When I mentioned about all them people living in one house and not paying their fair share to the city for the water, trash and sewer her comment was very defensive toward the illegals but still deverted back to the MH that makes the neighborhood look like trash???? sometimes you know it must have been sick…

Yep california passed a law that the power companies have to PAY you for the power you generate if you have solar… but, here is the clinker… The PUC (run by and for the utilites) will set the rate.. want to bet its 50% less than what you pay for.. and the homeowner will get gigged because they have to pay the 50% for the power… so rate increase on the utility bill for solar power addition charge. Hey its all about the money.. don’t ever forget it… they can make static numbers lie. Effecency is the key. And we aint their yet folks.. The generation of nuc power is the stepping stone to better effecency of energy useage in this country.. and then yes electric cars charged at night might be a good answer. But, you stll can’t get around the battery charge /recharge issue of 50% loss each time.. Remember it takes 150% to charge the batts up.. no matter which one you are using… and that my friend is not effecent use of energy.

As to 77% of its energy useage right now… did yo know that working at night.. even with lights on.. takes less energy than during the day according the national study by MIT. Indeed at night you don’t need AC (largest pull of power) and some of the other things that you would need during the day. So maybe effecency can be better achieved by shifting work times???

Oh bob can you illuminate us on the 300 watts per 30 miles… still waiting !!!!

]]> By: Kriilin Namek http://blog.rv.net/2009/10/nickel-lithium-the-next-battery-break-through/comment-page-1/#comment-85742 Kriilin Namek Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:25:25 +0000 http://blog.rv.net/?p=12465#comment-85742 Bob, you're right, the key is charging at night. I used to work as a chemist in a coal plant, and you can't turn the boilers off at night. Same story for nuclear, and even hydro spills a lot of water at night, especially in wet seasons. One DOT study estimates America could get 77% of its current transportation energy from CURRENTLY EXISTING domestic capacity that's (unavoidably) wasted if that "unstorable" energy could be captured by batteries. The down side would be peak demand by people charging during the day, the vehicle would need enough capacity for a full day. Bob, you’re right, the key is charging at night. I used to work as a chemist in a coal plant, and you can’t turn the boilers off at night. Same story for nuclear, and even hydro spills a lot of water at night, especially in wet seasons. One DOT study estimates America could get 77% of its current transportation energy from CURRENTLY EXISTING domestic capacity that’s (unavoidably) wasted if that “unstorable” energy could be captured by batteries. The down side would be peak demand by people charging during the day, the vehicle would need enough capacity for a full day.

]]> By: John http://blog.rv.net/2009/10/nickel-lithium-the-next-battery-break-through/comment-page-1/#comment-85739 John Mon, 12 Oct 2009 23:30:49 +0000 http://blog.rv.net/?p=12465#comment-85739 Bob It is good to know we don't have to upgrade our electric delivery system. California's is already near collapse. I don't pretend to be an expert in these matters. I just try to apply my American "common sense". I am all for keeping the planet as clean as possible. Thank you for your article. Bob

It is good to know we don’t have to upgrade our electric delivery system. California’s is already near collapse. I don’t pretend to be an expert in these matters. I just try to apply my American “common sense”. I am all for keeping the planet as clean as possible. Thank you for your article.

]]> By: G L Pruett http://blog.rv.net/2009/10/nickel-lithium-the-next-battery-break-through/comment-page-1/#comment-85728 G L Pruett Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:45:34 +0000 http://blog.rv.net/?p=12465#comment-85728 Some of the overly restictive laws on RV's came about due to poor neighbors who did not park off street and behind the front building line as manners would seem to indicate. For the people who live in areas with restictions on property use, my sympathy, that is what glasses are for, to read the fine print! Our "fair" city does not enforce the few safety items in the code such as no over height units within 30 feet of an intersection unless irritated by someone. We bought with the requirement of off street parking for a minimum 25 ft unit and it is seldom vacant. Yes it was a longer search but worth it. The last attempt to "clean up" our streets came up against reality, no one wants to pay the bill to enforce more parking laws. The State has also discovered an extra income, licenses are now by the foot of length, Anoying but at 25 ft, livable. Some of the overly restictive laws on RV’s came about due to poor neighbors who did not park off street and behind the front building line as manners would seem to indicate. For the people who live in areas with restictions on property use, my sympathy, that is what glasses are for, to read the fine print! Our “fair” city does not enforce the few safety items in the code such as no over height units within 30 feet of an intersection unless irritated by someone. We bought with the requirement of off street parking for a minimum 25 ft unit and it is seldom vacant. Yes it was a longer search but worth it. The last attempt to “clean up” our streets came up against reality, no one wants to pay the bill to enforce more parking laws. The State has also discovered an extra income, licenses are now by the foot of length, Anoying but at 25 ft, livable.

]]> By: Darthvagrant http://blog.rv.net/2009/10/nickel-lithium-the-next-battery-break-through/comment-page-1/#comment-85712 Darthvagrant Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:47:18 +0000 http://blog.rv.net/?p=12465#comment-85712 QUOTE:"Darth…. :You can’t even put the motorhome in the back yard… as the next door neighbors will turn you in around here" . Yeah, unfortunately 'been there-done that'. This city permits an RV on your property if: [1] It's not visible from the street, and [2] It is parked on a paved surface. Strange you should mention the "next door neighbor". That's just who ratted me out. All of the city enforcement departments in my city are EXCLUSIVELY "complaint driven". (their words) Basically, they primarily provide the means of neighbors ratting each other out in a vindictive vein. Sadly, I have a very close (proximity-wise) neighbor whose sole purpose in life is to F*** with all those around her. Déjà-vu . I was obliged to have a concrete pad poured for my motorbox. No big deal, I was going to do that anyway to facilitate working on it. Next complaint: ”Mr. XXX is working on his motorhome in his back yard”. In a rare display of actually having a backbone, the city replied: “SO?” At this point I think they were feeling my pain from the dozens of complaints this neighbor had lodged against me. I had also obtained a permit to put an additional drive to this pad, but the aforementioned neighbor went to “city hall” and made such a scene the driveway permit was rescinded. NEVER underestimate the power of a hysterical, emotional old woman. If a man were to conduct himself in such a loud emotional, tearful manner, the cops would be called. Sexist statement? YOU BET! QUOTE:”Darth….
:You can’t even put the motorhome in the back yard… as the next door neighbors will turn you in around here”
.
Yeah, unfortunately ‘been there-done that’. This city permits an RV on your property if: [1] It’s not visible from the street, and [2] It is parked on a paved surface. Strange you should mention the “next door neighbor”. That’s just who ratted me out. All of the city enforcement departments in my city are EXCLUSIVELY “complaint driven”. (their words) Basically, they primarily provide the means of neighbors ratting each other out in a vindictive vein. Sadly, I have a very close (proximity-wise) neighbor whose sole purpose in life is to F*** with all those around her.

Déjà-vu
.
I was obliged to have a concrete pad poured for my motorbox. No big deal, I was going
to do that anyway to facilitate working on it. Next complaint: ”Mr. XXX is working on his motorhome in his back yard”. In a rare display of actually having a backbone, the city replied: “SO?” At this point I think they were feeling my pain from the dozens of complaints this neighbor had lodged against me. I had also obtained a permit to put an additional drive to this pad, but the aforementioned neighbor went to “city hall” and made such a scene the driveway permit was rescinded. NEVER underestimate the power of a hysterical, emotional old woman. If a man were to conduct himself in such a loud emotional, tearful manner, the cops would be called. Sexist statement? YOU BET!

]]> By: GMAs http://blog.rv.net/2009/10/nickel-lithium-the-next-battery-break-through/comment-page-1/#comment-85710 GMAs Mon, 12 Oct 2009 04:49:13 +0000 http://blog.rv.net/?p=12465#comment-85710 300 watts... wow... lets see 746 watts equals one hp... so that means it only takes less than 1/2 (o.42 ) hp to go 30 miles... wow bob thats pretty dang good... must be down hill with a stiff wind at your back... why that comes out to be 10 watts per mile... I don't think so... or the gas engines would be making 100 miles per gallon at that HP rate... (.014hp/mile) I don't even think you can do that on a bycycle.. even if you peddle your bottom to help out. 200 million cars with one lap top... charge?? Bob your sluring youself again... I think its called per-pet-ual engine?? Where do you come up with this stuff?? Can we be privi to your source materials... Best check the math and numbers again their Bob... have another brew and come back with some more good EPA numbers.... LOLL Darth.... You can't even put the motorhome in the back yard... as the next door neighbors will turn you in around here... it has to be in a City APPROVED.. storage yard... can you say kick back... Most didn't worry about the fire ring... but ran the fire bell when the thing accidently caught on fire parked out on the street in front of the house... (right after the ordance went into effect some 17 motorhomes caught on fire in one week) to which no more storage problem and some kick back from the insurance on it... I mean motorhomes, RV were cheap.. people were strip'n the things down and scrap'n 'em out because it cost over 400 bux a month to store it at a approved yard... (thats almost $5,000 a year) and you had to provide insurance to the city/owner putting bothof them as co-insureeeesss so they would not be responsible. Go figure that one out. I understand that in county now you have to get and pay for a yearly permit to park it on YOUR property.. and it has to be on , gravel, asphatl or concret and a designated parking spot approved by the fire marshal... (USSR/Nazi ring a bell) The use the aerial photos to show you have one and then check to see if you have a permit.. no permit... $2500 fine and jail time. All for something you own... wow. I bought a 4kw onan gen set that was almost new and later a 6.5 kw onan that was removed from a motorhome that was headed for the recycle yard. Craigs list has parts cheap for 'em. So if you can put it in the back yard.. your lucky... but eventually the enviro nazi's will get you... Bob.. I am still laughing at your 200 million cars per laptop and 300 watts to go 30miles... hey can I have a drag off that thing before you throw it away... must be some really good stuff... :D 300 watts… wow… lets see 746 watts equals one hp… so that means it only takes
less than 1/2 (o.42 ) hp to go 30 miles… wow bob thats pretty dang good… must be down hill with a stiff wind at your back… why that comes out to be 10 watts per mile… I don’t think so… or the gas engines would be making 100 miles per gallon at that HP rate… (.014hp/mile) I don’t even think you can do that on a bycycle.. even if you peddle your bottom to help out.

200 million cars with one lap top… charge?? Bob your sluring youself again… I think its called per-pet-ual engine?? Where do you come up with this stuff?? Can we be privi to your source materials…

Best check the math and numbers again their Bob… have another brew and come back with some more good EPA numbers…. LOLL

Darth….
You can’t even put the motorhome in the back yard… as the next door neighbors will turn you in around here… it has to be in a City APPROVED.. storage yard… can you say kick back… Most didn’t worry about the fire ring… but ran the fire bell when the thing accidently caught on fire parked out on the street in front of the house… (right after the ordance went into effect some 17 motorhomes caught on fire in one week) to which no more storage problem and some kick back from the insurance on it… I mean motorhomes, RV were cheap.. people were strip’n the things down and scrap’n ‘em out because it cost over 400 bux a month to store it at a approved yard… (thats almost $5,000 a year) and you had to provide insurance to the city/owner putting bothof them as co-insureeeesss so they would not be responsible. Go figure that one out.

I understand that in county now you have to get and pay for a yearly permit to park it on YOUR property.. and it has to be on , gravel, asphatl or concret and a designated parking spot approved by the fire marshal… (USSR/Nazi ring a bell)

The use the aerial photos to show you have one and then check to see if you have a permit.. no permit… $2500 fine and jail time. All for something you own… wow.

I bought a 4kw onan gen set that was almost new and later a 6.5 kw onan that was removed from a motorhome that was headed for the recycle yard. Craigs list has parts cheap for ‘em.

So if you can put it in the back yard.. your lucky… but eventually the enviro nazi’s will get you…

Bob.. I am still laughing at your 200 million cars per laptop and 300 watts to go 30miles… hey can I have a drag off that thing before you throw it away… must be some really good stuff… :D

]]> By: Darthvagrant http://blog.rv.net/2009/10/nickel-lithium-the-next-battery-break-through/comment-page-1/#comment-85702 Darthvagrant Sun, 11 Oct 2009 23:15:12 +0000 http://blog.rv.net/?p=12465#comment-85702 QUOTE:" it takes 300 watts to drive an electric car about 30 miles" . Sorry, but you lost me on that one. "300 watts" is an increment of an untimed unit of power. Any useful measurement of what it would take would be expressed in “watt hours”, or more likely “kilowatt hours”. “300 watts”, to wit: 30 volts @ 10 amps would constitute “300 watts”. A static expression of current draw doing no work without a time element introduced. . Am I missing something here? QUOTE:” it takes 300 watts to drive an electric car about 30 miles”
.
Sorry, but you lost me on that one. “300 watts” is an increment of an untimed unit of power. Any useful measurement of what it would take would be expressed in “watt hours”, or more likely “kilowatt hours”. “300 watts”, to wit: 30 volts @ 10 amps would constitute “300 watts”. A static expression of current draw doing no work without a time element introduced.
.
Am I missing something here?

]]> By: Bob Difley http://blog.rv.net/2009/10/nickel-lithium-the-next-battery-break-through/comment-page-1/#comment-85701 Bob Difley Sun, 11 Oct 2009 21:04:22 +0000 http://blog.rv.net/?p=12465#comment-85701 Regarding the amount of energy needed to run electric cars (John - "It will take enormous amounts of money and time to upgrade the system to handle the additional demands of these vehicles It seems to me that all we will do is shift our concern for the price of fuel to the price of electricity."), it takes 300 watts to drive an electric car about 30 miles, the average an American drives in a day, about the same as leaving your laptop computer on all day. A study by the US Department of Energy shows that you could power 200 million electric cars without a single change to the grid. Regarding the amount of energy needed to run electric cars (John – “It will take enormous amounts of money and time to upgrade the system to handle the additional demands of these vehicles It seems to me that all we will do is shift our concern for the price of fuel to the price of electricity.”), it takes 300 watts to drive an electric car about 30 miles, the average an American drives in a day, about the same as leaving your laptop computer on all day. A study by the US Department of Energy shows that you could power 200 million electric cars without a single change to the grid.

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