Comments on: Is There Quality In Today’s RV’s?

By: Lug_Nut

Lug_Nut — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:42:15 +0000

Ed Nickerson, I believe the TV manufacturers switched to DTV ready about mid 2006, but that is not guaranteed. My ‘07 coach has one of four DTV ready. Thank you for sharing your issues with us and for your input.

By: Ed Nickerson

Ed Nickerson — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 21:40:34 +0000

I think the problem is both the manufacturer and the suppliers. We bought a new Holiday Rambler Motor Home. Within the first 3 months we had to replace every vent cover. The TV came through the bottom of the cabnet. When DTV came out I thought I would have no problem but I went on RCA web site and it told me the ancient tv set required a box ( the motor home was 1 year old). I should have junked the tv then but I bought a DTV converter box and the second day of vacation the tv died. (under 2 yeard old to me) Everything the put together is secured with staples. The seats, and the roof have fallen in. The auto jacks will not level the coach ( Thanks to EZ Level I get it done by running jacks manualy.) The fresh water tank had a leak due to loose clamp (black mold) HR had no idea how to get the smell out. Now the Norcold N611RT fridge freezes everything (nobody carries the part and norcold does not respond to E-MAILS). There were other things too but this is the majors.
No wonder HR went out of business.
I thought I was alone but the list above me tells me otherwise.

By: Lug_Nut

Lug_Nut — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:34:18 +0000

lee metz, That is disappointing, but certainly not unheard of. Sometimes the frames are in stock for a considerable time, in all types of weather. Additionally, an issue with the primer paint with the outer frame paint can result in this kind of problem. If warranty is not an option, there are reasonable priced solutions. Sand blasting of the frame and refinishing is an option, and usually at a low cost. The end result can well be worth the work. Best of luck with your rig and thank you for your input on this topic.

By: lee metz

lee metz — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 00:31:03 +0000

I purchased a 2009 Heartland North Trail 5th wheeler.Two months after I happened to crawl under this new trailer and was surprised to see the amount of rust on frame and slides.I contacted Noble Rv (where I purchased) and they in turn contacted Heartland rv and Lippert ,who produces frames,and all they would do is paint over rust.I contacted Mn.Attorney General and there was no way they any power to force these people to cover warranties.
I have talked to dealers and have been told warranties are rotten and if they can get work done,they have to add one hours labor to cover the amount of time they spend fighting with rv companies.

By: Lug_Nut

Lug_Nut — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:35:39 +0000

Nancy, Actually the topic of the RV Consumers Group has been discussed in many threads in RV.NET. Here’s one LINK http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15380454/gotomsg/15413894.cfm
Much of their information comes from RVers themselve. It is worth the study. Thank you for your participation on this topic.

By: Lug_Nut

Lug_Nut — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:27:55 +0000

Lynn Gillard, There are many third party warranty companies to choose from. I have never been a supporter of after-market warranties mainly because of the cost. I don’t think it would be difficult to get repairs done on most of these as you have a choice of repair shop to go.. They pay the shop. Perhap someone with direct experience in dealing with these will chime in. Thank you for your input.

By: Nancy

Nancy — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:38:15 +0000

I have been reading the ratings provided by the RVConsumerGroup, but rarely hear it mentioned in any of these BLOGs. It has tight criteria on length vs wheelbase and power vs carrying capacity that seem to make a lot of sense. The problem is very few of the Class C or smaller Class A manage to meet even the basic requirements. I am looking at the smaller ones because I am a traveler of one and not interested in a huge motorhome. Just enough for one person. Fleetwood, Winnebago, Itasca, etc don’t even have one that theRVConsumergroup will give 5 stars to or recommend for more than just usage for a few weeks of the year. Very few of the large volume producers meet their quality requirements and some of the “popular coaches” are actually listed as unsafe. Usually due to overweight chassis; or engine provided.. If I go with their recommendations I will have to go to Canadian manufacturers like Triple E, Chinook or Bigfoot or stay with smaller or more regional manufacturers like Tiffin, Coach House, Lazy dazy, Born free, Dynamax. More expensive and not easy to find in Texas. All of which I have also been warned that repair may be more difficult due to lack of dealerships. I will be living full time on the road by myself. I want something that doesn’t need to be fixed every time I stop and am trying to do the research up front. Does anyone have any input on RVConsumer Group or the coaches they recommend for longterm fulltiming use?

By: Lynn Gillard

Lynn Gillard — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:57:08 +0000

We’re just buying our first rv, a 2003 Vanguard from Canadream In Calgary, Alberta, Canada. We’re thinking of purchasing “after market” warranty coverage from a company called SecureRV (LGM). After reading this forum, I am a bit concerned that dealers won’t be willing to do warranty work on the vehicle….any thoughts out there?

By: Lug_Nut

Lug_Nut — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:15:35 +0000

Al Paschen, This is an excellent description of what obviously is a growing problem and leaves the dealer looking like the bad guy. I had no idea that this was as bad as your examples illustrate. I have seen similar happening in other industries, like electronics, but they are on a very much smaller scale. I totally understand your reluctance to do work on a non-dealer sold unit. Doing so would eventually financially force you out of business.
I an currently writting a piece for a November release that deals with RV service from the dealer and manufacturer’s side, and would love to referrence some of these points.
Thank you for taking the time and giving us this insight into the reality of what actually happens. I’m sure it is an eye opener for many. Again thank you for sharing your experience and for your expert opinion on this topic.

By: Al Paschen

Al Paschen — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 04:46:37 +0000

As a long-time RV dealer, I have some comments about RV warranty coverage: ( I must point out that one company that the following comments do not apply to is Winnebago)

There are many things changing in the RV industry these days, as RV manufacturers struggle to survive. One of these things that everyone should be aware of is the handling of warranty claims submitted by dealers. It is only important to consumers when a new RV suffers some kind of mechanical or structural failure.

As a dealer, it is very important to me, because I know that a high percentage of new RVs will be back for some amount of warranty service. A few will be back for really expensive, serious problems.

Travel trailer/fifth wheel manufacturers have cut back on all expenses. Handling of warranty claims appears to be at the head of the list of cut-backs. They are making the dealers jump through all kinds of hoops, in order to get paid for the parts used and the work done by the dealer to fix the defects in the product. In a large proportion of cases, the administrative work needed to get paid is so large that it is more cost-effective for the dealer to just absorb the cost of the “warranty repairs” than to try to collect from the manufacturer. Yet the manufacturers love to tell consumers, “Just take it to any dealer. We pay them for doing warranty repairs”.

The RV business is not as sophisticated as the car business, yet. It often takes days or weeks for the dealer to find out from the manufacturer if a repair will be covered by warranty and if so, just how much the manufacturer will pay. I will relate a few actual experiences at our dealership, and what is now required by the manufacturer:

1. DIGITAL PICTURES of the problem and the repair are almost universally required: Example: COMPLAINT: Sofa moves around when traveling. CAUSE: Screws came loose and broke off. SOLUTION: Replace screws. There is a labor flat-rate for the operation of replacing the screws – roughly 10 minutes. NOW TO GET PAID FOR THE 10 MINUTES OF WORK, DEALER MUST: Take digital pictures of location of the missing screws and the replaced screws, download the pictures and attach the picture files to an electronic warranty claim. The claim form must be filled out with complete information describing the RV unit and the customer, as well as a written narrative describing the complaint, cause and correction. It is also necessary to locate in the manufacturer’s digital flat rate manual, the operation code for replacing screws. Also, to get paid for the 10 minutes of actual work, the dealer must get the RV off the lot and move it into the shop, diagnose the problem, get his tools and find the right part, screws in this case. Unless the tech has a camera in his tool box along with his tools, he must go get the camera from the office. After the work is complete, someone must bring the forklift and take the trailer from the shop and park it. Then move it again when the customer comes to pick it up. The customer signs the repair order indicating the problem was corrected. Now the dealer gets paid for the 10 minutes. This isn’t a made-up situation – it is a typical real-life thing that really happened.

(Question: Is this a safeguard against dealer/customer collusion to defraud the manufacturer? Or is it a procedure to dissuade the dealer from submitting any claim at all?)

2. SPECIAL PART NEEDED – This one really happened last week: COMPLAINT: Running lite lens color faded. CAUSE: Defective lens. SOLUTION: Replace lens. Simple enough, except this lens is not a common one. It must be ordered from the manufacturer. Cost $2.43, plus packing and shipping. Dealer pays the parts and shipping cost but manufacturer will reimburse – if dealer jumps through enough hoops. Dealer must find the labor operation codes for replacing this lens (.1 hr) and the part number for the lens (computer now says we need digital pictures of the old and new lens). Dealer can also recover out-of -pocket cost for shipping, but must find and photocopy the shipping bill. But wait!! A new message has come up on the computer ; Dealer must package and return the old faded lens to manufacturer. Then, he must file another complete warranty claim to recover the return shipping cost on the old lens. If dealer fulfills all the requirements and the customer signs the warranty claim, dealer will get his money back for the lens and all shipping, plus he gets paid for 6 minutes work.

(Question: If dealer must spend 20 or 30 minutes in order to recover payment for 6 minutes of work, is it cost-effective for the dealer to even attempt to recover payment for the part, shipping both ways and 6 minutes of labor time? Is the manufacturer really afraid the customer and dealer will conspire to cheat them out of a $2 lens?)

3. RETURN OF DEFECTIVE PART is required. Often, big warranty jobs involve some major parts. We are trying to get paid right now for a job involving replacement of an axle. We got manufacturer pre-approval before doing the work. They require return of the defective axle. We are owed several hundred dollars of labor plus the cost of an axle, by the manufacturer. We will not get paid until the axle is returned. We cannot return the axle without a “return authorization” tag, which can only come from the manufacturer. Three months and many phone calls later, we are still waiting for a tag.

(QUESTION: Is the manufacturer short of people to process the paperwork, or just not very motivated to pay out money?)

4. JUST DENYING THE CLAIM (OR REDUCING IT) is becoming all too common. Another real case that is now being contested. A big total-rebuilding job that was pre-approved by the manufacturer for $6,000. Four months after completion, a credit comes in the mail for $4,000. No explanation! Outright denials come the same way. Just stamped “Denied”, without explanation.(months after we did the work)

(QUESTION: Why would a dealer do warranty work on any travel trailer that they didn’t sell? Consumers should be aware that dealers know they will lose money every time they do a warranty job.)

If anyone has read this far, you may wonder why I have gone to all the trouble of telling this story. I would hope that people will begin to understand that when their RV dealer solves their warranty problem, he is doing it at considerable cost to the dealership. The manufacturer is not footing the whole bill — not even close!

We, and other reputable RV dealers, are more than happy to do whatever it takes to give our customers a good experience with their new RV. We sold it and we accept responsibility for getting it fixed. And we will gladly help a traveler in distress. But, except for the traveler-in-distress exception, it isn’t realistic to expect a local dealer to do warranty work on a trailer that they didn’t sell.